La Shawn Barber's principles, my feminist convictions - all in one blog post!

One of my conservative readers - yes! I have several! And I like them! A hateful liberal like me! Imagine that! - posted this comment on my post about backing out of a campaign because of family issues:

Why was John Edwards running for President when he should have been taking care of his cancer stricken wife? Oh wait, different situation. Or is it really?

My response to this dollin reader - the feisty, provocative as well as supportive and good hearted Don - was too long for a comment.  In accordance with The Camahort Rule (if your comment is longer than three paragraphs, then it should be a blog post) I am transferring my commentary to here:

RE: John Edwards/cancer stricken wife/different situation/really?

Don, you're almost there - it REALLY WAS a "different situation".

Elizabeth Edwards is a grown woman with the benefit of life experience and wisdom. She encouraged her husband to carry on with his campaign.

This is in stark contrast to the Palin situation - Bristol is young, only 17 and the decision appears to have been sprung on her on the private jet flight to Dayton Ohio.

Back to the issue at hand and away from the never ending tit-for-tat discussion to nowhere, conservative blogger La Shawn Barber wrote about Sarah Palin's unworthiness due to lack of experience and poor role modeling. LaShawn, a devout Christian, did not throw away her religious and moral principles to get on board the trainwreck that is Governor Palin's ride. LaShawn will vote for McCain (again, consistent with her principles, I would not expect her to vote Democrat), but she'll do so unhappily:

I’ll go against the conservative blogosphere grain and state my confusion over and disappointment in John McCain’s choice of running mate. I think Sarah Palin, a relatively unknown female governor from Alaska, is a bad choice.

I came to this conclusion before I found out Palin has a five-month-old infant (I believe mothers [and fathers, OK?] should raise their children) and a knocked up teenage age daughter (who ought to give up the baby for adoption to an older, married, two-parent family) or that she’s under investigation for ethics violations.

LaShawn further defends her use of the term "knocked-up" and warns her readers to watch their hypocrisy:

[Commenters are complaining about my using the term 'knocked up.' I don’t remember anyone complaining about how ungracious or unloving the term was when I used it to describe non-conservative unmarried pregnant women, namely, Crystal Mangum, false 'Duke lacrosse' rape accuser. Anyway, I’m glad the kids are getting married, but I won’t apologize for using the term. Some of you are disagreeing with me for the first time. You have plenty of company! I manage to offend liberals and conservatives, believers and unbelievers. I blog about my views, popular or unpopular. I describe things in politically incorrect ways. I’ve been deleted from plenty of blogrolls, RSS feed readers, and bookmarks, and I imagine this post will tick off even more readers and bloggers. “Knocked up” is vulgar, I agree, but I use it to make a point.]

Clearly this is a woman who did not throw her values under the bus in order to maintain the popularity of her blog and hop on the Palin bandwagon/trainwreck.  Such a strong commitment to principle deserves our admiration and respect.

It goes without saying that I do not agree with LaShawn on many of her views. It goes without saying she would hardly agree with mine.  And, it should go without saying that in this country we must live with and promote discussion of dissenting views.  This is fundamental to living in a free society. When we stop doing that, we're throwing our American values under that fabled bus.

Further to dissent - I am receiving an incredible amount of flack from my sister feminists for my very strong opinion that Gov. Palin should not advance her career on the back of her daughter. In fact, I believe with all of my heart and mind that it is a feminist ideal for Gov Palin and any mother to protect her daughter from a culture that is vicious to unwed, pregnant teenage girls. Nurturing our children is in the core of feminism. Just ask our feminist kids and feminist husband (and my feminist ex-husband).

(By the way, just in case you're thinking that my ex husband and third (and last!) husband are wusses because they support and identify themselves as feminists, then I'd be pleased to introduce you to both of them.  Anytime, Don, anytime.)

 

Dollins, many blessings to you all and have a great day.

Comments

[Chantel]

I don't think its just feminists who understand that your shouldn't throw your pregnant daughter to the wolves; its all parents. I agree that Palin as a candidate is a very poor choice and for once I'm not celebrating that fact. I'm sad that she, McCain and the entire camp are going to continue with full understanding that the obvious victim of her campaign will be her child.

[Don]

All good arguments Grace but I have to ask this: When will Bristol be old enough that she won't need her mommy to protect her? And who gets to decide when she's old enough? You? And you get to decide because you have a uterus? Or you get to decide because you have a child?

This reminds me of people who say the minimum wage should be raised. I always ask them the same question. Who gets to decide and how much should it be? And of course if minimum wage goes up then my wage should go up the same amount, right?

This is another thing about Liberals that I always disagree with. They think they know best how to raise children and don't have any problem telling you how to raise yours. That's part of the reason our schools are in trouble.

It really surprises me that Liberals have now become the party that worries about Mommy staying home and taking care of their children. Weren't the Republicans always accused of wanting to keep women at home?

[mamadaisy]

I am a feminist, and I absolutely believe that Palin is exploiting her teenaged daughter's difficult personal situation in an effort to solidify public perception of her own extremely pro-life and anti-sex education views.

Any person, man or woman, feminist or not, who would seek political gain rather than protect their daughter from the harshness of public scrutiny does not share my family values.

Being a feminist means that women have choices about work and family. It just doesn't look like Palin is making very good choices.

[Cursingmama]

So I went to the dictionary to make sure my vocabulary was clear
Feminism: the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

And my point - I don't care if the parent is man, woman, or animal - it is your duty, moral obligation, and should be your nature to protect your children from things that will be of detriment to them. Choosing to do something for yourself that will knowingly be of detriment to them is bad parenting; Political candidate or not. Feminism shouldn't even be in play.

[Steph]

What bothers me more than Bristol's situation is that Governor Palin said to parents of special needs children that they would have an advocate in the white house. This, to me, seemed inappropriate and exploitive of her son Trig. Never mind the fact that her young son with Downs is only a few months old. She has barely begun her journey as a parent of a special needs child.

[Trish]

"It really surprises me that Liberals have now become the party..." Hmm. First of all, I know I haven't been paying as close attention to the political news as I could be, but did we get a third party called "Liberal"? I think the word you're looking for is Democrat.

But perhaps Don is right. Perhaps little (?) Bristol doesn't need her mother's defense, perhaps she is, essentially, a woman (or at least within spitting distance, according to the law in most states). Heres the thing, though. The issue is not so much that Bristol is a minor, although in this case that is a factor. I would hope that any person would think twice about accepting a position that would put a member of their immediate family under such critical, endless, unpleasant attention. Regardless of whether it was her sister, her mother, her husband, or her underage child, shouldn't the thought of that kind of pain being inflicted on them make her think twice about accepting the position?

What is the alternative? Saying, "Tough beans, hon, you put yourself in this, you can damn well deal with it on your own."? I like to think compassion is one of the traits we would value in our leaders. No, it's not a trait that will necessarily get her into the White House. But it's a trait that would make her a good person, and that might just be a little important.

But it could be just me.

And I'll save the minimum wage, public school, keep-the-woman-in-the-home discussions for later. :)

[GraceD]

Don, you have to stop the tone, you know? This sort of stuff:

You? And you get to decide because you have a uterus? Or you get to decide because you have a child?

That sort of talk is below you and below the standards of the readers of my blog. Do you want to be defensive and offensive or do you want a reasonable exchange without the distracting put-downs?

I'm hoping you want the exchange. If you do, please refrain from aiming your sarcasm directly at me and my readers. I don't do it on your blog comments and I don't do it to you on my blog comments.

We've been blogpals for a long time, Don, and we've been through this before. But, I'd like to remind you again - This is my blog, which is a cyber version of a dinner party at my house where everyone wants to hear everyone's point of view with gracious respect. It is possible to disagree with one another with passion without resorting to sneers.

Don, please don't sneer. Please take the high road. Please be respectful. Please - I don't want to block you but I will if I have to.

Be well,
GraceD

[Don]

I'm sorry Grace, I didn't mean to come off as sneering. I apologize if that's the way you took it. I tend to get right to the point and sometimes that is offputting. I meant to come off as asking you a question, which you didn't answer. Who gets to decide how old Bristol needs to be before she doesn't need her mom? I respect your desire to protect your own child but isn't it the parent's right to decide that for their own children?

Here's what I think. I won't tell you how to raise your child if you won't tell me, or Sarah Palin, how to raise theirs. Again, not trying to sneer or be condescending but I happen to believe a parent has the right to raise their child as they see fit. I have a friend who's 16 year old son has a 9PM bedtime. That's the same bedtime he had when he was 8. I happen to think a 16 year old should be able to stay up later than 9PM but I don't tell my friend that because it's none of my business. I don't tell any of my friends how to raise their children.

I also didn't comment about your husband when you invited me too. Here's what I think about him. I think he's a great capitalist who loves the country and you and has done very well for himself. I respect the hell out of him. I think anyone who gets an education and then uses that education to provide for his family is pretty neat. I wish I could send my wife and kids to Hawaii and Bali but I don't make that kind of money. I respect that he does. I don't think he's a wuss. I think he has a different political outlook than I do, just like you.

One more thing. It is extremely hard to convey emotion in written word and be sure how the reader is going to interpret it. In all my comments on your blog I am not intending to be condescending or sneering. I suspect the fact we have polar opposite political positions sometimes makes us presuppose what someone is thinking. If my comments come across as that I apologize beforehand and assure you they aren't meant that way.

[GraceD]

Don, I love you dude, I really do. Points well taken about expressing oneself and your intent. Further on that point, this last response was excellent, devoid of sneer, and a formidable challenge to my stance on Governor Palin as a mother. I honor that and if you were around, we'd invite you out on the deck and we'd have frosty rum beverages and snacks.

All righty then - your remarks -

"I won't tell you how to raise your child if you won't tell me, or Sarah Palin, how to raise theirs. Again, not trying to sneer or be condescending but I happen to believe a parent has the right to raise their child as they see fit. I have a friend who's 16 year old son has a 9PM bedtime. That's the same bedtime he had when he was 8. I happen to think a 16 year old should be able to stay up later than 9PM but I don't tell my friend that because it's none of my business. I don't tell any of my friends how to raise their children."

I'm with you there. I would not tell a friend, co-worker, acquaintance, stranger on the street to their face or even on my blog how to raise their child. However, we're talking about a public figure here and they offer themselves to the citizenry for scrutiny, as Governor Palin did last night.

That's how I see it, that's how it rolls with me, and just as I stand with LaShawn Barber you are standing with - the feminists! Funny, that!

I'm breaking The Camahort Rule. Don, be well. I am your Loyal Opposition and I certainly hope you are mine.

[Don]

Great response Grace! I can see we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I know I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

I secretly still think many Liberals who are complaining about this are doing so because they are afraid a strong Republican woman might just pull some support from their side. I'm sure the Daily Kos crowd will never waver but I suspect the Reagan democrats are thinking twice about Obama and Biden.

Be well Grace! :D

[Chantel]

For both Grace and Don: I was 17 when I got pregnant. I really needed my Mom to tell me what to do. She was high and I was scared but IN LOVE. I skipped college, got married and had two children before the age of 20. Then I divorced their drug addict father. Doesn't matter what the legal age of consent is; at 17 you need a parent to help you make decisions. I'm 36 now and I wish someone would have said, you don't have to get married to have the baby or if someone would have given me any advice at all I would have been grateful. I was shunned by all of the conservatives in my small town with all the family values. I was asked to possibly hide my pregnancy status two weeks from graduating high school because, "These things are contagious." One of the other girls in my same graduating class dropped out of school in her senior year but at least on this topic I stuck to my guns. I threw up three times each class but I still went until I graduated, pregnant and very much afraid.

My mom is dead now; I would still like an honest opinion.

[GraceD]

Chantel, I stand with you my sister with honor, respect and the kind of awe associated with spectacular sunsets and majestic landscapes.

I stand in solidarity with you, my sister. I have no words in response, only love.

You are my hero, Chantel.

xoxo

[Don]

I too salute you Chantel. I'm sorry you had a mother that was high instead of engaged in life and her family. My parents were always there and it helped me learn many things I would have gotten wrong had I not had them. Even then I made lots of mistakes.

Sounds like you recovered quite nicely. Bravo for you!